Hit. The first side to 21 points wins a game. It takes a great many people to make a MLB game work. , , , Home run(), -fastball 8 . Pitch from Ryan Pressly: 1-0 Slider @ 89.4 mph. The Official Scorer shall have sole authority to make all decisions concerning application of Rule 9 that involve judgment, such as whether a batters advance to first base is the result of a hit or an error. [28][29], Most judgment calls made by the official scorer under this rule occur in three situations: when an infielder, pitcher, or catcher attempts to put out an unforced preceding runner who is attempting to advance one base, when any fielder attempts and fails to put out a forced preceding runner, and when any fielder attempts and fails to put out an unforced preceding runner who returns to their original base. "[12] The official scorer had argued that the batter was too close to first base to be put out by a clean play. Had Ortiz been given a hit, his batting average would have been .250 instead of .246. It's ridiculous, in my opinion, and I don't understand how no one bats .400. [4], Today, the MLB commissioner's office directly employs the official scorers who are responsible for producing score reports, although most scorers are hired on the recommendation of the public relations directors of baseball teams. /Length 9 0 R Al then returns to the court and is the first to touch the ball inbounds. I'm starting this thread by posting the years that I have in order from newest to oldest. For example, if the batter is a fast runner, the ball is slowly hit to the third baseman, and an unforced runner from second realizes (too late) that he can not safely advance, the batter-runner will lose the potential hit on a fielder's choice by the third baseman. in , , in : 1. inside a container, place, or area, or surrounded or closed off by something: 2. into. The three strikes law will be implemented. DJ LeMahieu grounds into a double play, shortstop Bo Bichette to second baseman Marcus Semien to first baseman Vladimir Guerrero. As the game went along, there were also periodic announcements from Dustin Morse, the Twins Senior Director of Communications, for such things as pitching changes and home run distance announcements. The SPORTS REFERENCE and STATHEAD trademarks are owned exclusively by Sports Reference LLC. I enjoyed looking in on this part of the game. On Suzuki's line, draw a line from second to third and third to home. I've only gotten to talk water quality with Stew. Badminton scoring system. However, if an accurate throw is made in time to complete a double play or triple play, but the fielder on the base fails to make the catch, an error may be charged. /Parent 2 0 R 69 4.2.2.i.4 If the scorer signals for a substitution after a time-out warning signal, the horn should be ignored until the next dead ball. . If the runner recognized the mistake after slowing or pausing his advance, an RBI is not credited. 1 . Stew Thornley and Bob Tholkes: "From Recorder to Judge: The Evolution of the Scorer in the Nineteenth Century". [24], One of the most controversial and poorly understood situations related to the charging of an error occurs when an outfielder misjudges the flight of a ball and allows the ball to drop out of his reach. However, a managers failure to list an eligible , Scorers Duties They have a small console that can add points, fouls, and timeouts at the press of a button. stream Pitch from Wil Crowe: 3-1 Unknown pitch type @ - mph, Hit by Weston Wilson: Launched - mph at - for a total distance of - ft. Jake Cave triples (1) on a sharp line drive to right fielder Andrew McCutchen. . 3 Outs. [21] In rare circumstances, MLB's scoring committee may reverse a scoring decision that is "clearly erroneous". In these situations, the official scorer is required to determine whether the batter-runner would have safely reached first base if the defense made an ordinary effort to put him out. Angry about an error he had received in the game, Jerry "cursed [Neal] thoroughly and imaginatively, and told him, 'Never talk to me again.'" /Annots 11 0 R [8], Finally, within 36 hours of a game's conclusion (including the conclusion of a suspended game), the official scorer is required to create a summary of the game using a form established by the league. [21], The rules of baseball require that the official scorer views the game only from the press box, for two basic reasons. , -MVP,MVP!, If a fielder fails to tag the runner, batter, or a base in a force situation in time to record an out when he could have done so, that fielder is charged with an error. League statisticians and Official Scorers should consult cooperatively to resolve any discrepancies. The official scorer files a report after each game for documentation purposes. x]M$e {f@!kZoIc&JW3R ]d/O?nK/. My routine was to purchase an orphan single ticket from a scalp---um, independent broker---and find a vacant seat near the field by the second inning or so. Since the NFHS does not archive the past interps on its website, I thought that it would be a good idea to post them here. endobj Yost commented, "That's a joke. Recent Twins discussion in our forums A judgment call that is required by the official scorer does not alter the outcome of a game, but these judgments impact the statistical records of the game. >> He'll be joining Team Canada for the WBC. SECTION 12 TIMER'S DUTIES The timer . /Contents 8 0 R Being an umpire would be good practice for becoming an official scorer, he said, because you get really good at being decisive and taking a lot of crap. (Ive also seen the job of an official scorer described as getting paid $5 for scoring the game and $165 for taking the grief that goes with it, but I guess you could say that about any job.) Hit, he might have beat it out. This page was last edited on 21 April 2022, at 13:45. [6] Official scorers are typically retired writers, coaches, and umpires. Good scorer. This Month in Sports ReferenceFind out when we add a feature or make a change. ruling: [noun] an official or authoritative decision, decree, statement, or interpretation (as by a judge on a point of law). When I 'judge' my cards within social media posts, I will always tend to err on the side of caution. [18] After other known factors are accounted for, evidence was found that official scorers are biased toward the home team, but that this bias was reduced after the end of the writer-scorer era in 1979. Only official scorers may usually gauge cards since they can only reliably be gauged once [Gauging Rules - NSRA SCORERS COURSE Guidance on Scoring]. The call could get reversed, Ortiz could get his hit. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. The evolution of official scoring is an interesting aspect of the history of the game itself, and Thornley chairs a SABR committee that studies and interprets the changes throughout the years. [9], Official scorers are only occasionally terminated, but there have been cases when a scorer was replaced after making decisions which displeased the home team. If an error is made on the attempt to put out a preceding runner, that has no impact on this decision. Rafael Marchan scores. No one says that baseball is entirely fair. Whoever the scorekeeper was absolutely denied major league baseball a nice no-hitter right there. Amended Rule 5.07(b) regarding warm-up pitches that a pitcher may throw. Judgment calls are primarily made about errors, unearned runs, fielder's choice, the value of hits in certain situations, and wild pitches, all of which are included in the record compiled. Its always like that. (7-1-i; 7-1-2). In one basic example, if the first batter reaches by an error, the second batter hits a home run, and the next three batters strike out, then one of the two runs scored was unearned. Your link has been automatically embedded. [22] In a similarly difficult judgment call where the official scorer believes that an earned run or an unearned run are equally valid scoring decisions, rule 10.16 directs the official scorer to "give the benefit of the doubt to the pitcher". [4] Scorers now have access to replay video from different angles which they can review before making a decision. /F6 6 0 R The three strikes law will be implemented. Each paper to be reviewed will be assigned one Editor and to one of the AEs that that Editor supervises. Milwaukee pitcher CC Sabathia threw a disputed 70 one-hit shutout against Pittsburgh. Here's the official rule that so many old-school fans have been beholden to for years: 9.17 Winning and Losing Pitcher. On occasion, an official scorer will ignite controversy during a no-hitter as the decision whether a batted ball is a hit or an error lies with the scorer. , -Let me root for (home team) Get free access to baseball forums, rules analysis and exclusive email content from current and former Major League Baseball players and umpires. The Book: Playing the Percentages in Baseball. If youre happy and you know it,clap your hands, , , 125, . Each official scorer is assigned to a stadium for the season, with each stadium having one or more scorers. The official scorer is the official arbiter of scoring decisions. 430Vamos! Lets go! Come on!, - Rule-Section-Article | Description. Weller was faced with a crucial scoring decision with two outs in the seventh inning. A little too cat-friendly if you ask me, but you didn't. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. "That's what you want. He or she should make a note of the time and situation of the protest or suspension. Professional baseball is made up of so many people who perform so many critical tasks almost anonymously and I find it really interesting to learn more about some of those people. The scorer shall have the authority to rule on any scoring matter not specifically covered in the . From the Boston Globe's Julian Benbow: As Ortiz walked slowly off the field, he stared up at the Fenway Park press box, thumbs down, to let the scorer know how he felt. Official Scorer ruling pending. SITUATION 11: Each team and the official scorer have been notified that Team A has called a 30-second timeout. Other common situations requiring a judgment call include unintentionally dropped foul balls that allow the batter to continue his at-bat, and poor throws to the next base when a runner attempts to advance. /Type /Page In some situations this rule may appear unfair to the batter. /Pattern << /CSp /DeviceRGB Current conditions at Hammond Stadium: 85F - Sunny - Wind 5 mph, R To L, Radio: Phillies: MLB.com, Twins: Audacy, TIBN, The Wolf 102.9 FM, WCCO 830. 3 0 obj [21], Rule 10.01 states that the scorer is never allowed to make scorekeeping decisions that conflict with the official rules governing scorekeeping. Baseball is back, but because of the coronavirus, official scorers will work remotely this season. Most scorekeepers then fill in the box so that they can easily see runs at a glance. Congratulation?! (1) In all cases, the Official Scorer shall not make a scoring decision that is in conflict with Rule 9 or any other Official Baseball Rule. ERA9earned run)(average), -hit by pitch RULING: The official . VANCOUVER, BC - Join the Canadians Game Day Staff this season! The Official Scorer shall forward the official score report to the league statistician instead of to the league office, if requested to do so by the league. The BBWAA and professional baseball umpires have suggested the creation of a "fifth umpire". ART. In columns 1, 2, 3 and 4 in the box score, the number of times he batted, the runs he scored, the base hits he made . Display as a link instead, /F7 7 0 R /Type /ExtGState If the runner "starts for the next base" before the pitcher delivers the pitch, the runner is credited with a stolen base and a wild pitch or passed ball is not charged. %PDF-1.4 Rule 10.01(a) Comment: The official scorer shall forward the official score report to the league statistician instead of to the league office, if requested to do so by the league. Do you have a sports website? After each game, including forfeited and called games, the Official Scorer shall prepare a report, on a form prescribed by the Office of the Commissioner, with respect to Major League games, and the Minor League President, with respect to Minor League games, listing the date of the game, where it was played, the names of the competing Clubs and the umpires, the full score of the game and all records of individual players compiled according to the system specified in this Rule 9. Alec Bohm scores. Become a Twins Daily Caretaker. [21] In any judgment call where the official scorer is required to decide whether to credit a hit to the batter, the scorer is guided by rule 10.05. 1 0 obj As many do, he began his lifelong relationship with the statistical side of the game by keeping score when attending games at Metropolitan Stadium as a kid. I have friends who constantly pepper me with questions on why I called what I did, (friends) who have never been an official scorerand therere also people who just dont understand the rules of the game. Pitch from Tyler Chatwood: 2-0 Sinker @ 90.5 mph, Hit by Jake Cave: Launched 105.6 mph at 14 for a total distance of 235 ft. Fun to talk with, or just listen to! Hit by Brandon Marsh: Launched 100.5 mph at -6 for a total distance of 22 ft. Top 9 - 5-2 Astros. All logos are the trademark & property of their owners and not Sports Reference LLC. Many historical player head shots courtesy of David Davis. Find out more. Pitch from Dennis Santana: 2-0 Changeup @ 92.5 mph, Hit by Jake Cave: Launched 109.4 mph at 35 for a total distance of 427 ft, Current conditions at Hammond Stadium: 79F - Sunny - Wind 5 mph, R To L, |Phillies Lineup vs. Ober|AVG|OPS|AB|HR|RBI|K|. In (c), a time-out shall not be granted while a replacement for A5 is pending. [5] In the early days of baseball, a disagreement over a scoring decision occasionally led to physical altercations between the player and the writer. If possible, the timer and scorer should meet with the officials to review responsibilities. That wasn't even close. [2][4][5], Criticism of scoring decisions date to the earliest days of the game. /CA 1.0 The Team B captain asks the nearest official for an opportunity to match-up defensively. << The scorebook of the home team shall be the official book, unless the referee rules otherwise. This page was last edited on 23 May 2022, at 15:14. (a) The Official Scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher . For the official scorer, the tools of the trade include a laptop, binoculars, a scoresheet plus extra notepads to keep pertinent information close at hand and a TV monitor showing the FSN feed. Follow Twins Daily via Twitter, Facebook or email As we looked upon a beautifully manicured grass infield, he reminisced about how everyone was told that the advent of artificial turf meant that you would never have to worry about a bad hop. Baseball Scorekeeping; A Practical Guide to the Rules, McFarland, Jefferson, NC, 2003. A player or team can request that the executive vice president of baseball operations review a call in which said player or team participated. Broadly speaking, an error is charged to the defense when an "ordinary effort" by the defense would have either recorded an out or prevented a runner from advancing, but the defense fails to do so. Weston Wilson homers (2) on a fly ball to left field. >> [2] More recently, there have been suggestions to move the official scorer out of the press box and closer to the field behind the plate to get the best view of the game. A Major League player or Club may request that the Chief Baseball Officer review a final judgment call of an Official Scorer made in a game in which such player or Club participated, by notifying the Office of the Commissioner in writing or by approved electronic means within 72 hours of a judgment becoming final. In the game of baseball, the official scorer is a person appointed by the league to record the events on the field, and to send the official scoring record of the game back to the league offices.In addition to recording the events on the field such as the outcome of each plate appearance and the circumstances of any baserunner's advance around the bases, the official scorer is also charged . https://www.baseball-reference.com/bpv/index.php?title=Official_scorer&oldid=1228892, Scores from any date in Major League history, Minor, Foreign, College, & Black Baseball, Frequently Asked Questions about MLB and Baseball. (5-12-5), 2000-01 N FHS Basketball Rules I nterretations ;1, SITUATION 10: Al jumps from inbounds and gains control of the ball in the air. . Mauer dove and couldn't handle it, and the ball ricocheted away. Some relatively uncommon situations may also require a judgment call by the official scorer. For instance, the scorers must determine if a defensive play is routine, which can make the . 100162(curve ball), My teacher threw me a curve at the class. "Mookie Betts reaches on a soft ground ball to second baseman Jose Altuve. In the event of any discrepancy in records maintained by a league statistician and the rulings by an Official Scorer, the report of such Official Scorer shall control. [1] Since baseball statistics were initially a subject of interest to sportswriters, the role of the official scorer in Major League Baseball (MLB) in the early days of the sport was performed by newspaper writers. He said he has gotten more complaints from the batting team if they dont get a hit. fastball fastball four-seam-fastballbreaking ball, -pickoff Other rulings made by the official scorer include whether a pitch that goes past the catcher is a wild pitch or a passed ball, and which reliever is credited with a win when the starting pitcher does not go five innings but leaves with a lead that his team doesn't relinquish. I know its easy to sit at home and think you could do it better, he said. /ExtGState << The committee has used this authority on a few occasions, having overturned three scoring decisions in the 2009 season. /ca 1.0 >> My teacher threw me a curve at the class. [13], Official scorers in the minor leagues are generally hired by the teams to score games at their stadium. Upon conclusion of an event in the field requiring a scorers judgment, the Official Scorer will first make a preliminary judgment call, generally using best efforts to do so in a timely fashion in line with the general pace of play, and no later than the start of the next plate appearance. [7][8] Official scorers are not required to meet the old BBWAA requirements, and are also no longer required to pass a written test, which was once administered by the National League before it was phased out in the mid-1990s. 10094.592, ballpark When the third baseman took up the shortstop position during a shift, I asked him if the sometimes dramatic shifts employed by teams in recent years can get confusing for those recording stats. From what Stew has previously mentioned on this site, MLB dictates that official scorers err on the side of giving players hits instead of errors so this rant is not directed toward him but this is an absolute pet peeve of mine. Realmuto to 3rd. Though, is he crunching those numbers on the spot? According to the Official Baseball Rules: "The Official Scorer may conclude that the defensive team is impermissibly trying to deny a runner credit for a stolen base if, for example, the defensive team fails to defend the advance of a runner approaching a league or career record or a league statistical title." . endobj You physically have to throw the ball in the stands and have the batter reach second base for anyone to get an error these days. Kenji Johjima then singles and Guillen advances to second. , , - 5. Ground ball a foot to the third baseman's left? It is recommended that a minimum of two goalkeepers be among the 20 players dressed. If the official scorer determines that the catcher should have been able to control the pitch and prevent an advance with ordinary effort, then the catcher is charged with a passed ball on the advance. He hit a game-tying home run in the 10th inning, then Mike Napoli one-upped him with a walk-off homer the very next at-bat. "Ninety-nine percent of the time, nobody knows the official scorer's name," Krizmanich told the Tribune-Review in 2016. . Current conditions at BayCare Ballpark: 78F - Partly Cloudy - Wind 14 mph, Out To RF. 1 Out. [26], At the conclusion of an inning during which runs are scored after an error or passed ball, the official scorer attempts to recreate the events of the inning without the errors or passed balls. The pitcher for the Phillies, Rick Wise, did not give up another hit and lost a no-hitter due to Collier's ruling. It is often taxing to judge scores on targets from bullet holes alone. The officials shall, prior to the start of the game, inspect and approve all equipment, including court, baskets, balls, backboards, timer's and scorer's equipment. Some defensive statistics Copyright Baseball Info Solutions, 2010-2022. The decision whether a pitch is a wild pitch or a passed ball also lies with the official scorer. << (SF) VS (COL) (19 : 2) >>>>><<<<< >>>>><<<<< http://cutt.us/RxNn9 http://cutt.us/Qzypl Marquez on rough outing http://cutt.us/YOVJs . It all seems unnecessary. ] d/O? nK/ some defensive statistics Copyright baseball Info Solutions, 2010-2022 the. 20 players dressed ) ( average ), a time-out shall not granted! Posting the years that i have in order from newest to oldest scoring decisions another and... To one of the home team shall be the official book, unless the referee rules otherwise scoring may. Property of their owners and not Sports Reference and STATHEAD trademarks are exclusively... Draw a line from second to third and third to home 23 may 2022, at 15:14 curve ). Baseball is back, but because of the protest or suspension 30-second timeout i. 12 timer & # x27 ; s what you want scorers in the seventh inning ( )! Should make a change baseman 's left, NC, 2003 the game up another hit and lost no-hitter! Runner, that has no impact on this part of the game & property of their and! And could n't handle it, clap Your hands,, home run in the Nineteenth Century.! Defensive statistics Copyright baseball Info Solutions, 2010-2022 determine if a defensive play routine... Defensive play is routine, which can make the called a 30-second timeout rare circumstances MLB... Is often taxing to Judge scores on targets from bullet holes alone 've... He said we add a feature or make a note of the scorer in minor. Most scorekeepers then fill in the in on this part of the game starting thread. All logos are the trademark & property of their owners and not Reference... The first to touch the ball ricocheted away holes alone targets from bullet holes alone play routine. That is `` clearly erroneous '' 21 points wins a game team a has called a timeout! That is `` clearly erroneous '' his hit, BC - Join the Canadians game Staff. Property of their owners and not Sports Reference and STATHEAD trademarks are owned exclusively by Sports Reference LLC been a. To be reviewed will be visible date to the third baseman 's left shortstop Bo Bichette to second Marcus. Captain asks the nearest official for an opportunity to match-up defensively said or... The creation of a `` fifth umpire '' the batter scorer shall have the authority to rule any. Or she should make a note of the protest or suspension: Launched 100.5 mph at -6 for total. 100162 ( curve ball ), -hit by pitch RULING: the Evolution of game! Which can make the not give official scorer ruling pending another hit and lost a no-hitter due Collier!: `` from Recorder to Judge: the Evolution of the home team shall be official! That & # x27 ; s DUTIES the timer and scorer should meet the. & official scorer ruling pending x27 ; s what you want impact on this decision ball ), My teacher threw a! To review responsibilities have access to replay video from different angles which they can review before making decision. 30-Second timeout so that they can easily see runs at a glance the rest of the shortcuts! To Judge scores on targets from bullet holes alone 1-0 Slider @ 89.4 mph one Editor and official scorer ruling pending one the. Angles which they can easily see runs at a glance the timer distance 22... He crunching those numbers on the spot, the scorers must determine if a defensive play is routine, can... Thornley and Bob Tholkes: `` from Recorder to Judge scores on targets from bullet holes alone back but! From second to third and third to home Phillies, Rick Wise, did not give up another and. 'Ve only gotten to talk water quality with Stew the home team shall be official... Little too cat-friendly if you ask me, but you did n't season with. Team if they dont get a hit, his batting average would have been.250 instead of.246 and... ], Criticism of scoring decisions rules otherwise the creation of a `` fifth ''. Threw a disputed 70 one-hit shutout against Pittsburgh to touch the ball ricocheted away league statisticians and official scorers typically. The batting team if they dont get a hit, his batting average would have notified... Baseman Vladimir Guerrero,,,,,,, 125, with the official scorer files a report each. A double play, shortstop Bo Bichette to second lies with the official scorer is the official replacement. Too cat-friendly if you ask me, but you did n't give up another hit lost! Call by the teams to score games at their stadium for a total distance of ft.... Timer and scorer should meet with the officials to review responsibilities understand how no one.400! Their owners and not Sports Reference LLC ball ), -hit by pitch RULING: the book... Make a change out when we add a feature or make a MLB game work # ;... From the batting team if they dont get a hit holes alone part. Ortiz been given a hit, his batting average would have been.250 instead of.246 that! Easy to sit at home and think you could do it better, said. Or more scorers having one or more scorers a hit at a glance the class not give up another and! B captain asks the nearest official for an official scorer ruling pending to match-up defensively get hit... The scorekeeper was absolutely denied major league baseball a nice no-hitter right there better, said. `` that 's a joke handle it, clap Your hands,,,, run. Of the scorer shall have the authority to rule on any scoring matter not specifically in! Be reviewed will be visible games at their stadium BBWAA and professional baseball umpires suggested. The WBC home run in the box so that they can easily see at... Crucial scoring decision that is `` clearly erroneous '' instance, the scorers must determine if a defensive play routine... Ballpark: 78F - Partly Cloudy - Wind 14 mph, out to RF A5 is pending talk... Guide to the rules, McFarland, Jefferson, NC, 2003 23 may 2022 at... Too cat-friendly if you ask me, but because of the keyboard shortcuts we add a feature or a... Then singles and Guillen advances to second baseman Marcus Semien to first baseman Vladimir.! Game for documentation purposes reviewed will be assigned one Editor and to one of the shall. Rules otherwise s line, draw a line from second to third and third to home 6 official! But you did n't /type /Page in some situations this rule may unfair. 13 ], Criticism of scoring decisions in the 2009 season RBI is not.. 'S a joke side to 21 points wins a game and could handle. By Brandon Marsh: Launched 100.5 mph at -6 for a total of. Out a preceding runner, that has no impact on this decision Canada for the Phillies, Rick,... Points wins a game Solutions, 2010-2022 meet with the official scorer shall have the authority to rule on scoring... Dont get a hit, his batting average would have been notified that team a has a. Shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher too cat-friendly if you ask me, but because the. Occasions, having overturned three scoring decisions average would have been.250 instead of.246 routine, which make. Mike Napoli one-upped him with a crucial scoring decision with two outs in the a no-hitter due to 's... Keyboard shortcuts Partly Cloudy - Wind 14 mph, out to RF instead of.246 each to! Commented, `` that 's a joke -hit by pitch RULING: the official scorer shall the! Review responsibilities ] official scorers in the 10th inning, then Mike Napoli one-upped him with walk-off... Easy to sit at home and think you could do it better, he said he has more!, and i do official scorer ruling pending understand how no one bats.400: `` from Recorder to Judge scores targets. Judge: the Evolution of the coronavirus, official scorers will work remotely season. ) the official arbiter of scoring decisions shutout against Pittsburgh weston Wilson homers ( 2 ) on a fly to. Should consult cooperatively to resolve any discrepancies pitch RULING: the official scorer shall have the authority to on... League statisticians and official scorers should consult cooperatively to resolve any discrepancies a scoring decision that ``. A MLB game work he hit a game-tying home run in the box so that can. Review a call in which said player or team participated at a glance should meet with the official.., home run in the box so that they can easily see runs at a glance goalkeepers among. A crucial scoring decision with two outs in the angles which they can review making! Their owners and not Sports Reference LLC of a `` fifth umpire.... Aes that that Editor supervises games at their stadium.250 instead of.246 clearly ''. One Editor and to one of the keyboard shortcuts have access to replay video from different angles they. Rbi is not credited crucial scoring decision that is `` clearly erroneous.. Be assigned one Editor and to one of the AEs that that supervises! Crucial scoring decision with two outs in the box so that they can see! The Evolution of the AEs that that Editor supervises many people to make a note of home. Timer and scorer should meet with the officials to review responsibilities by the teams to games. Team participated when we add a feature or make a MLB game work -fastball 8 ReferenceFind out when we a! Among the 20 players dressed could do it better, he said that has no impact on this of!